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On a New Road

Oracle v GoogleMonday April 16, 2012
The slides from the opening of the Oracle v Google court case make interesting reading. Oracle has posted them at Before you read them, put whatever preconceived notions you may have aside. I particularly liked the contrast between slides 56 and 58.

Hey James: I assume you mean "between slides 56 and 58". Cognitive dissonance rules!

Posted by Geoff Arnold on April 16, 2012 at 08:22 PM PDT #

I have read the history of the Android development. I don't worked for Google and Oracle. Android is based on Apache's Harmony project which is one of the clean-room implementation of Java programming language. I wouldn't expect Android to be 100% Java compatible for GUI part.

Posted by Jonathan on April 16, 2012 at 08:49 PM PDT #

perhaps, he means page 55 and 56. just redundance for making propaganda. copy-and-paste style.

Posted by Frank on April 17, 2012 at 01:17 AM PDT #

Nice. What I found interesting are pages 62 through 64: - Designing APIs is very rewarding, somewhat like being an artist, a concert violinist. - API desing is a noble and rewarding craft - API desing is tough: perfection is unachievable, but try anyway Then: - Google copied Java API designs into Android APIs - Google based Android class libraries on Java API designs - Google copied from Java code into Android code In short: Google has stolen Sun's original noble art. In short: Oracle never had such an art, so, Larry, don't expect to become an artist just because you bought Sun. Sun's Artists has already gone away.

Posted by Gabriele Bulfon on April 17, 2012 at 01:40 AM PDT #

Here's the thing that I don't get: First you put Java under an Open Source license and THEN you complain that somebody dares to create an own derivative work? That just doesn't make sense. On the other hand, I know that Oracle is desperately looking for a way to get the money back that they paid for said Open Source software, so they go "all Apple" on their competitors.

Posted by Winfried Maus on April 17, 2012 at 02:48 AM PDT #

@Winfried Maus: I don't understand it, either. The only violation I could think of is if Google refused to release their derivative work under the GPL, too. Additionally, many parts of the presentation focus on the copying of APIs, the names of methods and parameter names, and their ordering. Creativity of the API designers aside, can APIs be copyrighted by themselves? Am I in violation, too, when I write a Java library that calls Sun/Oracles methods?! Whatever the claims, I don't think that Google has harmed Java by this at all (more people familiar with Java, is that not a good thing?!) What harms Java is this lawsuit, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. :-/

Posted by Udo Schuermann on April 17, 2012 at 09:24 AM PDT #

If Oracle wins the battle, they will lose the war..... Java popularity is drop...They are slow to push the platform forward.... Developer would quickly jump to something new....

Posted by JavaGuy on April 17, 2012 at 02:30 PM PDT #

Thanks for taking the time to post this James. As a n00b I never quite was able to get my head around what all the hoopla about the patents and issues surrounding them was all about and I found these slides to be some of the more informative and straight forward ways to get some insight into the topic. (avid fan of the blog.. keep on posting)

Posted by darko on April 17, 2012 at 04:49 PM PDT #

So Google poached all of the key developers. Scott Chase and Romain Guy (the two Swing gurus) are who did the Android UI if I'm not mistaken. Google should just write a check and move on. Sun got a lot of $ from all of the mobile folks like Nokia for the Java ME license. Google gives it to them for free and expects Oracle to be happy about it? Am I the only one who remembers that Larry Ellison was the personal photographer at Steve Job's wedding? He also was the key person in bringing Steve back to Apple. Google wanted to dump Android on the market because if Apple won the smart phone wars they were never going to give them all of the AdSense data they were getting from the desktop. Makes me wonder what that phone call between Steve Jobs and Larry Ellison was like when OS X Lion dropped Java. Cheers

Posted by cupofjoe on April 17, 2012 at 05:01 PM PDT #

Interesting battle between Oracle and Google :). After going through the link I came to a conclusion that Oracle J2ME became history due to Android success. I think Oracle is lot worried about this. Of course I too believe that Android should support Java applications also because it's API is similar to Java API. James Gosling can you express your views on Oracle vs Google Android. I like to hear on which side is creator of Java? Hoping an article on this from James Gosling!

Posted by Naresh Bharat on April 17, 2012 at 07:00 PM PDT #

Google: don't be evil.

Posted by darkcg on April 17, 2012 at 07:01 PM PDT #

I don't want Android to be ruined by Oracle !!!

Posted by Prayag Upd on April 18, 2012 at 12:27 AM PDT #


Posted by Techmimi on April 18, 2012 at 03:08 AM PDT #

This is like having ganja plants on the backyard. You know it is illegal but you think you'll probably get away or if you get caught you may be able to argue that you didn't know that they were what they are, you can pay the fine, you can offer some to the cops... lots of ways out that make it worthy

Posted by Someone on April 18, 2012 at 03:21 AM PDT #

Java is open source Android is open source Android byte code is dalvik so what is this lawsuit about

Posted by sam on April 18, 2012 at 10:42 AM PDT #

Well, one problem with Android is certainly its incompatibility with Java. It means fragmentation and violates Java's write once run anywhere principle. It's evil.

Posted by albedo on April 18, 2012 at 11:53 AM PDT #

So why didn't Sun defend itself against Google? You guys might still be around.

Posted by I remember spinning cube demos on April 18, 2012 at 12:50 PM PDT #

I liked slide 82. Joshua Bloch said he might had a recollection of Sun's code while developing TimSort. It makes me think on the philosophical side of whether you also owns your memories or if these lawyers thinks you have no right at all on this.

Posted by Felipe Toledo G Oliveira on April 18, 2012 at 01:12 PM PDT #

Is this "the java trap" which Richard Stallman spoke of so long ago?

Posted by Robert Andersson on April 18, 2012 at 01:17 PM PDT #

I don't like Oracle, nor their database nor their business attitude. I hate how they killed such a unique way of doing technology as Sun was. But... ...this time I think Oracle is right, and Sun just didn't think about Google as an opponent. Very simple: Google is making huge money out of someone else technology, without paying one dollar for it, and without following the rules forged by the owner and inventor, and being aware of doing something wrong, and now owning a different version of the technology. Very simple: Oracle paid a huge amount of dollars to own the original technology. Google is becoming dangerous.

Posted by Gabriele Bulfon on April 18, 2012 at 01:41 PM PDT #

...oh, I forgot.......I understand why James quit Oracle. Maybe Someday we will all know why James quit also Google.....

Posted by Gabriele Bulfon on April 18, 2012 at 01:44 PM PDT #

To complement Oracle's opening slides, here's Google's opening antithesis slides:

Posted by Aries McRae on April 18, 2012 at 10:28 PM PDT #

Beyond retaining the basic language constructs, the next thing that helps to keep a language implementation from fragmenting the existing implementations, is to copy the API method and interface signatures of the existing implementation. i.e. Its a little bit odd/contradictory to say that Google was causing fragmentation, and, that Google should not have copied the API method and Interface signatures - don't you think? Particularly as method and interface signatures aren't the actual implementation of the methods ... and Interfaces are just hollow anyway, requiring the subscribing developer to do the heavy lifting. Long Live Java.

Posted by Long Live Java on April 19, 2012 at 07:34 AM PDT #

The Java that we have been enjoying does not require platform-specific compilation. Now, Android is the exception.

Posted by albedo on April 19, 2012 at 12:25 PM PDT #

It's a jury of 12 non-technical people. Can they understand the arguments? I suggest they will rely more on who seems like a crook and who doesn't. That's a battle of the Titans. Dogs begin to bark and hounds begin to howl when Larry E walks into the room but Larry P can't seem to give a straight answer to any question. Very happy to not be part of this one -- Jon

Posted by JEK on April 19, 2012 at 11:10 PM PDT #

James.... Are you hiding from the County Sheriff looking to serve you with papers to go to court to testify?

Posted by WhereIsJames on April 20, 2012 at 12:00 PM PDT #

Looks like Oracle has a pretty strong case. I just hope that if they do win a hefty settlement against Google that some of that money come to you, because you always seem to be working on interesting things and it would be nice to see that continue, freely and with cash-flow.

Posted by houman on April 21, 2012 at 03:20 AM PDT #

Android coding= java coding. android UI has some innovativeness of OOP. judges should ask google to scrap android, and start fresh, with real difference . And oracle should be fined heavily for double crossing. Initially Sun CEO welcomed android, then later same Sun sued android.

Posted by hari on April 21, 2012 at 04:03 AM PDT #

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